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Time, Its Definition and Affect on the Universe
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Author:  Þórgrímr [ 16 Apr 2006 22:37 ]
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LOL, Greg I used to tell folks that I have timed traveled and they never believed me, BUT I SWEAR I did. :bs Here is how.

As an example, the first time I was stationed there I left Japan at 8PM Saturday Evening Local time 22 Feb, and I arrived in LAX at 3PM Saturday Afternoon local time 22 Feb. :bs Now tell me that is not time traveling when you arrive 8 hours before you left! :bs
Author:  Vuldacon [ 16 Apr 2006 22:53 ]
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Yes indeed Ken, "Time" is man made and not only refers to the registration of passing events but is applied in our world by solar cycles which alters time as a solar reference in different parts of the world even though the same amount of passing events or "time" has elapsed. IF you really want to time travel, have to get out of the solar system where our "Rules, Laws and Understanding" do not apply the same. :bl
Author:  fe3333au [ 17 Apr 2006 05:58 ]
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Wow a philosopher and a man who bettered the good doctor and travelled time without a tardis :twisted:

Who is this doctor I speak of with reverence? ... Who indeed :w

We are truly blessed as a team it seems :gl
Author:  Flamand [ 18 Apr 2006 04:05 ]
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Werner, I saw on CFC that you look for an editor for the editor. Ever considered using the "hacked" editor. No idea why it is called like that, but it gives a couple of extra functions (e.g. teleportation)... It was used for the first ST mod to let the Borg warp out of bad situations... :w

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" IF you really want to time travel, have to get out of the solar system where our "Rules, Laws and Understanding" do not apply the same.

I'm afraid Einstein would disagree with that analysis... :bs You can change the pace of your own personal time by assuming relativistic speeds. But that time travel is only forwards, never backwards according to the Special Theory of Relativity. But who knows, maybe the Big E was wrong or incomplete... :w
Author:  fe3333au [ 18 Apr 2006 04:10 ]
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Perhaps the Big E should have been sipping Nuka Cola :gl
Author:  Vuldacon [ 18 Apr 2006 09:35 ]
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Perhaps the Big E should have been sipping Nuka Cola
...AAHAHAHAHAHAAAA....I think the "Big E" did sip "Nuke Cola", now that you mention it. :bl

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I'm afraid Einstein would disagree with that analysis... You can change the pace of your own personal time by assuming relativistic speeds. But that time travel is only forwards, never backwards according to the Special Theory of Relativity. But who knows, maybe the Big E was wrong or incomplete...
...Wonder how the "Big E" would explain more time passing on earth than in outer space such as the two atomic clocks that were used in a test. Both Clocks were syncronized. One on earth and one sent out in a rocket. The one in the Rocket came back with a lesser time registerd than the one on earth. This is not "going back in time" but it is not advancing either. Besides...the "Big E" missed out on our better Outter Space TV Shows so he would know better :bl
Author:  Þórgrímr [ 18 Apr 2006 10:14 ]
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Greg, the Big E explained it by stating that as you get closer to the speed of light, time for the speeder is slowing down. While on Earth time remains the same. So the closer to LS you get, the more time slows for you.

It was theorised, that say for example a spaceship travels at 95% of lightspeed to Alpha Centauri and Immediately turns around and heads back to Earth. By the time they get back, 10 years will have passed for the spaceship, but 50,000 years has passed on Earth.


A book that used this premise was Joe Haldeman's EXCELLENT book, The Forever War. It is about a private who is drafted for a space war against a race of aliens called the Taurans. By the time the war ended, for him, 5 years later, Thousands of years had passed on Earth. Damned good book and I recommend it highly.


@Werner, I like the idea of a Nuka Cola Wonder, but I think it should be a small wonder, available to most of the civs. Thoughts?
Author:  Vuldacon [ 18 Apr 2006 11:35 ]
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Oh yes Ken, I know the "BIG E's" explaination but one doesn't have to travel at light speed for time to slow was my point.

Hey Werner...I think you have already become "addicted" to "Nuke Cola" :bl ... Anyone have any pictures or ideas that could be used for the Great Wonder and Building Game Pictures? That will have to be made...very Good Idea that "Nuke Cola".
Author:  Flamand [ 18 Apr 2006 11:45 ]
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Thorgrimm wrote:
Greg, the Big E explained it by stating that as you get closer to the speed of light, time for the speeder is slowing down. While on Earth time remains the same. So the closer to LS you get, the more time slows for you.

Exactly, neither I nor the Big E could explain it better... :gl
Author:  Vuldacon [ 18 Apr 2006 12:29 ]
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Not sure how we all got off discussing Time but my basic view is that it is important to know what "time" is. Sure it is man made and a method of recording past, present and future events as well as establishing a world time system from our solar cycle. For the sake of discussion, and way of seeing "time", I believe time is not just events but the effect on them and all things in our world that is under the influence and "rules" of our solar system and universe. IF one can either escape or move further away from the events and effects that these influences have, one can change "time" because the events and effects will have either no or a lesser ability to cause change from this total or lack in influence governed by the "Rules" as we are affected on Earth. Traveling the speed of light or towards it is an explaination that proves this point..it "breaks away" from the effects that are influenced by our solar system, universe and rules that are applied here on earth.
...I am not sure but Perhaps "Nuke Cola" could offer some insight or at least an escape from reality without traveling any speed at all :bl
Author:  Flamand [ 18 Apr 2006 13:27 ]
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Vuldacon wrote:
Not sure how we all got off discussing Time but my basic view is that it is important to know what "time" is. Sure it is man made and a method of recording past, present and future events as well as establishing a world time system from our solar cycle.

Aarrgh, the physicist in me cannot stand it any more... :sp Time is one of the four dimensions in the Minkowski space, together with length, width and heigth. Time is a part of the Universe, it shaped the Universe by allowing a sequence of events to take place from the primeval singularity (Big Bang) all the way what is now. Time is universal it's motion forward, but your personal experience of it can be altered by moving at relativistic speeds (as Ken nicely illustrated).
Humans did not invent time, only ways to register time using the means at their disposal many centuries ago. Using days, month and years seemed logical since they are so recognizable. However if the entire time keeping system would have to be reinvented they might end up with a decimal system: 100s in 1 minute, 100 minutes in 1 hour etc (this might require redifining the length of a second though... :w) as they did in the French Revolution. It was only abandonned a couple of years later because noone really used it...

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For the sake of discussion, and way of seeing "time", I believe time is not just events but the effect on them and all things in our world that is under the influence and "rules" of our solar system and universe.

The sequence of events is a result of the linear passage of time, it is not a definition of time.

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IF one can either escape or move further away from the events and effects that these influences have, one can change "time" because the events and effects will have either no or a lesser ability to cause change from this total or lack in influence governed by the "Rules" as we are affected on Earth.

Time is not influenced by the motion of celestrial bodies (except perhaps black holes, neutron star or any other gravitation near-singularity, but that is an entirely different story). Time in the Universe is moving at a constant rate: one second on Alpha Centauri is exactly equal to one second here, but it is the process of getting there that will cause temporal differences. If you move at 99% of the speed of light time slows down for you. This means the trip takes shorter for you then it would seem for any observer on either Earth or AC. This can be easily calculated using the Lorentz transform.
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Traveling the speed of light or towards it is an explaination that proves this point..it "breaks away" from the effects that are influenced by our solar system, universe and rules that are applied here on earth.

The speed of light is absolute in any frame of reference, both for you in your spaceship, or the two observers.This is the only absolute in all relativity... :w
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